Expresso wrote:

small addition I forgot to mention: the disappearing mines were serviced quite well. Unfortunately I don't have a savegame just before the mine in question disappeared.

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Belugas wrote:

Could it be possible to have the same behaviour confirmed on a game with ONLY george's ECS vectors?
That would be... very helpfull

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3867

George wrote:

1. Coal mines are so called "unlimited". In fact they have 16 times higher capacity and will close down when exhausted. That can happen in very long games (16M / (2.5K*12) is only 500 years :)
2. Glass works has no problem with unlimited stockpiles in TTDP

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3870

George wrote:

1. also "unlimited" mine parameter is applied only during the first 4 days of mines life. If the game is started without this switch, the capacity would be normal. Map editor does not effect it, because production callback does not happen in map editor (at least in TTDP). So, you can make any map with mines, capacity would be generated during game play only :)

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Belugas wrote:

George, what are you trying to say? Are you clarifying Expresso? Or giving me hints on how it works???

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3889

George wrote:

1. (coal mine) I'm saying my supposition about how it COULD happen. I do not know exactly, how did the game lasted before the save, nor the beginning date or values of parameters during the first game days. This information could explain, what happened. If you can extract this information from the save, then you can answer the question yourself. If not - we need to wait for Expresso's to clarify it.
2. (glass works) I have no ideas why does it happen.

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Expresso wrote:

Ok, attached a savegame in which a coal mine (Plintown Coal Mine) is about to disappear, even though it's serviced quite well and got a good stockpile of vehicles. Hope it's of use (it's of the same game as the original tt-forums post, only a bit further).

The mine which is about to disappear, appeared while playing the game. A sand pit (Pedhatten Sand Pit) also disappeared while playing. It might be that all disappearing mines (which are serviced) might all be prospected while playing the game. I'm not 100% sure about that, though.

Might be of interest, but not completely sure: In the game I was the client and my friend hosted the server on a lan.

Attachments

• ECS Bug 2.sav (706.31 KiB)

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3903

George wrote:

The mine is closed because none of the protection condition happens during last 24 months for the mine
- level > 04h (prod. level at least 5%)
- good service (transported > 75%)
- younger than 10 years
- last one on the map
If you'll build a statue of company owner in Plintown just one month before the save, you get 76% rating and it will not close (unfortunately you can't do anything during the last month, because it (1) means that the mine already decided to close)

Pedhatten Sand Pit does not plan to close. At least now. May be you also had problems while servicing it later. Sand pit has the same protection conditions as coal mine (and as all mines in ECS)

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Expresso wrote:

Also, a pileup of vehicles happens at the mines (sand pit, iron-ore mines and coal mines) at a point they'll simply stop accepting vehicles.

It seems to me only the endless mines seem to work, the rest of the parameters don't seem to work.

As for the protection criterea: maybe a good idea to implement something more sensible instead of above 75%? how about 50%? Or even better, just being serviced should prevent the mine from closure imo.

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3952

George wrote:

off-topic:
it was discussed. 67% is the lowest value I can agree to. (http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics# Station_rating may give you the key to understand this value)

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3953

Rubidium wrote:

Expresso: Which ECS NewGRFs are exactly used in that savegame. I tried several versions of the ECS NewGRFs and those did not match. So could you post the exact NewGRFs used in that game.

George: Which ECS NewGRFs support unlimited mines? The (TTDP) wiki says, for example, that the Basic vector has only a parameter for changing the gold mine. It furthermore says that coal starts between 100k ton and 1000k t, whereas it started with ~50k ton in a new game with ECS Basic of the 8th of February with the ECS Town of the 1st of February.

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George wrote:

I did not update wiki for long. All the beta 4 vectors after 18 March 2008 should support endless mines. As you can find it here http://george.zernebok.net/news/

18 March 2008
ECS beta 4 vectors now support parameter to control difficulty settings. Bit 0 - Unlimited storeplace, bit 1 - Endless mines, bit 2 - No mine closure.

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3991

Belugas wrote:

ECS beta 4 vectors now support parameter to control difficulty settings. Bit 0 - Unlimited storeplace, bit 1 - Endless mines, bit 2 - No mine closure.
Is it related to the difficulty setting? Where custom is not been taking care of?
George, what is needed for us to test is a pattern that will say : Ok, using this callback, we'll have that behaviour.
For all 3 bits

Like, what do you do for enabling No Mine Closure?
Endless mines and Ni Mine Closure, by the way... isn't it the same thing? where is the difference?

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Rubidium wrote:

George, which parameter needs to be set to 7? If I set the second parameter (parameter 1) to 7 it works as advertised.

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3993

Belugas wrote:

Expresso, we have just checked your savegame and they are showing that your grfs are not the newest ones.
So, would it be possible for you to
OR use the very latest ones from George's site
OR post them here, so we can check if yes or no the code is there.

As of now, the general idea would be that you have too old vrsions.
George, have you tested nightlies with your latest grfs? Can you confirm or deny the bug?

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George wrote:

George, which parameter needs to be set to 7? If I set the second parameter (parameter 1) to 7 it works as advertised.
The last one (2nd for ECS basic vector, 4th for town, 1st for wood, machinery and others)

Is it related to the difficulty setting? Where custom is not been taking care of?
Here difficulty means that a player specifies how difficult would be to play ECS vector for him. Of cause value 0 means the hardest, and 7 the easiest game mode

what is needed for us to test is a pattern that will say : Ok, using this callback, we'll have that behaviour. For all 3 bits
bit 1 test:
callback 3D always returns 01 80 if set for accepted cargoes
callback 2B always returns 88 88 if set
bit 2
Initial mine capacity is FF FF FF 00 if set
bit 3
Mine will never close unless it is exhausted (normal mines can close when they are at least 10 years old and do not get good service). Even if they are unlimited, endless mines can be exhausted in about 560 years (in case of always highest production). The test is made when protection is calculated. bit 3 acts as protection is always on.

George, have you tested nightlies with your latest grfs? Can you confirm or deny the bug?
r12904
I confirm the bug with Glass works. The same GRF works as intended in TTDP

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3996

George wrote:

It seems I found why it did not work for me. I added params, but did not press apply bottom, so my change was not saved.
Now I pressed it and parms got saved. Now Glass works has unlimited stockpile.
So
No, I can't confirm the bug

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Belugas wrote:

Ok, so basically, that would imply that the initial report is bogus, mainly because of wrong (read too old grfs)
So i'm closing as not a bug.
Expresso, if ever, after upgrading youyr grfs and trying a new game, you are still facing the problem, come up and knock,please

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919#comment3998

Belugas closed the ticket.

Reason for closing: Not a bug

Outdated grfs, as it seems

This comment was imported from FlySpray: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1919